Calling Dibs and Cover Versions

[pandarus]

There are several stories that I called dibs on and even started to podfic, back before The Summer of WTF. (ie before the previous laptop expired, and my father died, and Bangkok went up in flames, with dramatic gunfights at the end of my road.) I still have this mental to-do list - which also includes going back to the Camelot/Torchwood fusion story I'd started writing - but I am also a flake, and avoidant, and heaven knows when/if this will happen. KL Morgan's lovely Labyrinth novel "A Forfeit of Dreams", which I'd been merrily podficcing, was completely lost - this is disheartening, since it is HUGE, but I will go back and start over eventually. I still haven't started on the J2 Jensen-stands-for-election story called, er, I forget what it's called, but it's very good, and West Wing flavoured, and I called dibs on it months ago and still haven't recorded it.

If someone else nipped in in the interim and wanted to podfic these (or, you know, anything else I'm recording/have recorded) I do believe I'd be perfectly sanguine about it, because (1) I might be finding it trickier to fit in the time/inclination to make the podfic after all, and be relieved that someone else is on the case, and (2) I do subscribe to the multiple-performances philosophy, as both a listener and a performer. Because different styles appeal to different listeners, so it seems a shame to say that, no, This Is The One True Version. That's the theoretical side of it; on a personal level, I podfic for completely selfish reasons, not out of some sense of service-to-the-community or whatever. I actively enjoy reading aloud, and getting to play different roles. It's fun. People want to play Hamlet because it's a brilliant role and exhilarating to perform, not because they think that all previous versions fucked it up, you know? And with covers of songs, it's because they think that they have something fresh to bring to it - or even just because it's a lovely song to sing, whether they're doing anything innovative or not? (I mean, I wander around singing absent-mindedly just because I love singing and it makes me happy, not because I think I can teach the ghost of Ella Fitzgerald a thing or two.)

So, anyway - that's what I think.

I am aware, though (argh - egotistical moment of ego) that I'm coming at this from the position of feeling confident in my own abilities in storytelling and acting. (Although not so much tech-fu - I'm very Luddite in the tech side of recording things.) I mean, I know my style isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea, but it's not something I feel insecure about. It lives in the Things I Can Do bit of my brain, along with drawing and writing. If we were talking about an endeavour in another field, in one of the MYRIAD Things I Feel Insecure About, then I'd be all "Oh, no, I'm crap at that, no, no, go ahead, wow, I suck, skillz, I haz none." So, er, I think podfic is one of a handful of areas where my ego is sufficiently healthy that I wouldn't take it as a personal dis if someone wanted to record something I'd recorded/something I was planning to record - I'd just think "Yes! It's a brilliant story, isn't it? I TOTALLY understand you wanting to record it!" Rather than thinking "Are you saying I suck? Oh, God, you're saying I suck! Argh! I suck!" (which would be my response in various other areas.)

(Actually, if you've got a more story-appropriate accent, I'd be actively delighted - I know I've gone ahead and recorded quite a lot of podfics for American fandoms, but I also think that it would be A Very Good Thing if those stories were recorded by proper Americans who can do the voices properly. PSA - I am totally good with people recording stories I've already recorded. Please don't feel that I've baggsied them and you can't do it now, if you're at all tempted.)

But having read Juice817's post a while back and listened to the ensuing discussions about multiplicity of versions, I know that this is something where people don't all feel like me. And I think we're moving into greater acceptance of Multiple Recordings (which I think is brilliant!) but I don't think it's become the accepted community norm or anything at this point.

There are several long-ass stories I've recorded that other people had called first dibs on - 'Defenders of the Realm' because I'd been an idiot and recorded it (for myself, mostly - I was still more in the podfic-for-my-own-use headspace, and less in the podfic-within-a-community-of-listeners-and-podficcers headspace) before getting permission, just because I was so in love with the story. When I belatedly realised that it had been called dibs on, I apologised and backed off, and was going to just keep it for my own enjoyment rather than releasing it into the wilds - but the podficcer in question very graciously said it was okay. Which was awesome - but it did mean that she then DIDN'T go ahead with recording it, and I can't know whether she genuinely felt sanguine about that, or whether I took something from her. Argh.

With 'The Incestuous Courtship of the Antichrist's Bride' I held off recording it for a couple of months, because I knew someone had called dibs, but I kept going back to see the situation & eventually checked in with the podficcer in question, and she was okay with me doing it (much as I would be with either of the long-ass podfics mentioned above, even though I like the stories tremendously).

Current iteration of this particular dilemma:

I idly read and loved a short story this week, and checked Jinjurly's archive to see if it had been done, and left a note asking if I could record it (having already recorded another short story by this author in this fandom earlier on, and enjoyed it greatly) - and then I went ahead and recorded it before going to bed that night. Because it would be fun to do, and to listen to - and it was, and it is. And that's mostly why I make podfics - I mean, I was making them for my own use merrily for at least a year here in Thailand when I didn't have an adequate internet connection to upload or download anything, and wasn't sharing them with anyone - it was just so I could enjoy listening to the stories I'd loved. I'm sort of a raised-by-wolves feral podficcer, really.

So in the space between asking for permission in the evening, and getting a reply the next day, I'd made the podfic - it's only forty minutes or so, so it probably took up an hour to do, or thereabouts.

But it turns out that somebody already called dibs on the story. This, as I said, is not the first time I've done this, let enthusiasm go scampering ahead of establishing whether someone else is already on the case - but it's a dick move, and I know it is. Even though I subscribe to the multiple recordings philosophy in principle, not everyone else does, and we're still in the process of establishing community norms - so in practice I think it's pretty dickish of me to be all "Aha! The story you were looking forward to recording! I have recorded it already!" ESPECIALLY when it's such a short story, recorded on a whim. Because, you know - there's no way of knowing how Other Podficcer feels about this, and it's more than likely that in PM-ing them thus I rain on their parade and they feel that they can't record it/they feel like I've just thrown a bucket of ice water over them. That's the rub.

::headdesk::

I have a feeling that the honourable course is probably to just stfu and let the other lass go ahead and do her thing. Which is what I've done.

otoh, I know that there are stories that I've called dibs on (such as those cited above) but which I've still not got around to recording, and I'd be totally cool with someone else jumping in and doing it. It's conceivable that the lady in question feels the same way. Or that she'd be okay with both of us releasing versions into the wild. But if I ask her, then it becomes difficult for her to say no, even if she wants to.

So, Obi-Wan-KePodficpeeps, what are YOUR feelings about podfic etiquette in cases such as this? Both in larger terms of Multiple Recordings, and then also terms of this specific case of having inadvertently recorded something before realising that someone else had called dibs?

How would you feel if someone PM-ed you to say that, er, they'd just recorded something you're working on? Would you go ahead with your project, or abandon it? Would you be okay with both releasing versions simultaneously, to make it into some kind of event? Would you feel okay about it so long as you were allowed to release your version first, and a week or a month or something went by before the other one were released into the aether? Would you make a small voodoo doll of Evil Podficcing Git In Question and stab it repeatedly, and rend your hair and gnash your teeth, and then politely say that it was all fine, whilst inwardly feeling furious/gutted? Would you prefer that they just stfu and let you get on with recording the story you'd called dibs on?

Where do you stand on the idea of calling dibs, and multiple recordings? And what do you think would be appropriate in this particular instance?

Comments

[paraka]

Well I, obviously, completely approve of multiple copies (which was the whole reason I decided to run multipodicity).

And actually, I've always been kind of uncomfortable with the idea of "calling dibs" on a fic. I totally get where it's coming from, and don't think other people should stop, it's totally a personal thing for me. Because I know myself. My enthusiasm is so up and down. Sometimes I'll finish a podfic, other times I can spend hours working on it but lose interest and never finish. There are some stories I read and think "OMG I want to podfic this" but then I start reading a new story and kind of forget about it.

Because of all this, I almost never ask the author for permission until I've hit a point of no return and am sure a podfic will be finished (generally that means the whole story is recorded and at least 50% edited). Now, I'm in a fandom where there's tons of fic but only about 5 podficers so I've never run across the situation of wanting to d a fic that someone else has claimed or vice versa.

I think if I did though, I'd still be all about multiple copies. If someone wanted to podfic something I was podficing but hadn't posted yet, probably the most I'd do, would be to arrange it with the other podficer so we could post at the same time. So we could make it a statement (since, you're right, it's not currently a fannish norm but I'd really like it to be one).

If I wanted to podfic something someone else had claimed. Well. I'll admit, it might mean that I don't podfic the story. If it was one of those rare occasions where I asked before I started to podfic the story, I might decide "Oh hey, awesome now I don't have to read it to get a podfic of it! Bonus!" but I could be just as likely to suggest we both do versions of it (especially since I'd more than likely started the podfic).

Either way, I would want to know if I was preventing someone from posting a finished podfic.

I think you should contact the other podficer. Just make it very clear that you love multiple copies and would really like her to finish her version but would like to post your version. Maybe invite her to do a joint podfic announcement to encourage the idea of multiple copies (if you do that, you should totally post about it on multipodicity!).

I'm hesitant to ask permission from the other podficer, since I don't think that should be necissary and it kind of sets dangerous precidents. But I think I would probably lob a ball of enthusiasm at the podficer and then ask them how they feel.

[luzula]

If someone approached me with a question like that, I would be totally okay with the other podficcer posting their version as well. I'd probably suggest that they be released at the same time. But yeah, if you don't know the other person, there could definitely be a risk for the voodoo doll scenario.

Hmm, it would be nice if there was a way to know how a podficcer felt about multiple versions...I think I'll go edit my profile and my podfic index to say how I feel about it.

[paraka]

Hmm, it would be nice if there was a way to know how a podficcer felt about multiple versions.
Obviously not a complete list, but checking with multipodicity would also be a good place to start. Chances are if they're watching/a member of the group they've at least thought about multiple versions.

[zvi]

I think that many of us want to live in a world where multiple recordings are considered a good and normative idea, and the only way for that to happen is if we actually go ahead and act in that way.

To my way of thinking, the best approach is for you to contact the other podficcer and say, "Hey, the author said that you were planning to record this story. I've done a recording myself, and I wanted to know if you wanted me to wait so we could do a simultaneous release, or if you were pretty close to done and wanted yours to go out first, or where you are in your process?"

And then you've got to let the other podficcer deal with her hurt feelings, if she has them, herself.

[anatsuno]

This.

I am really uncomfortable with the very idea of calling dibs at all, I would never consider doing it myself, and I would most likely NOT consider that someone's announcement that they're working on X podfic is them 'calling dibs' on it, because I do'nt tend to consider it is even possible doing such a thing

I would deal in whatever way I find ethical with the fact that I know that someone else is recording something I also want to record - including possibly contacting them to let them know, offering to plan a joint release, or putting off my own project, all depending on my mood and energy levels - but I entirely reject the notion of calling dibs at all; it bothers me way too much.

[brimtoast]

Yes, exactly. Contacting them is good, to give them a heads up and possibly plan release dates that everybody is happy with. That contact shouldn't involve asking their permission, because whether they give permission or not should be relevant to the discussion.

Anyway, I support this answer 100%.

[brimtoast]

oops, I meant to say "whether they give permission or not should NOT be relevant to the discussion"

[anatsuno]

Now that I have a bit more time I thought I'd try to answer your questions more precisely! :D

> How would you feel if someone PM-ed you to say that, er, they'd just recorded something you're working on?

I would probably be indifferent-to-mostly-pleased, with a few exceptions when my ego would take a hit and/or I'd fear the competition. But because I consider these feelings shouldn't come in the way of my politics *g* I would keep them to myself (or vent to a friend). More podfic is always good, and I love when the same story exists in several forms. :)

> Would you go ahead with your project, or abandon it? Would you be okay with both releasing versions simultaneously, to make it into some kind of event?

I would o ahead with my project, even if that means spending a little time feeling less enthusiastic toward it - I wouldn't abandon it. A joint, simultaneous release would be a possibility, but I don't feel it is necessary either... We did that once with Jinjur for A Beautiful Lifetime Event, and we certainly did it because we had an agenda and ideas we meant to propagate, but at the same time I wouldn't want the joint release thing / event to somehow become an unspoken ritual thing that gets done when stories get multiple recordings. I simply would like for people to consider recording stories according to their own likes and desires regardless of if a recording already exists, you know?

> Would you feel okay about it so long as you were allowed to release your version first, and a week or a month or something went by before the other one were released into the aether? Would you make a small voodoo doll of Evil Podficcing Git In Question and stab it repeatedly, and rend your hair and gnash your teeth, and then politely say that it was all fine, whilst inwardly feeling furious/gutted? Would you prefer that they just stfu and let you get on with recording the story you'd called dibs on?

No, no, and no :D

> Where do you stand on the idea of calling dibs, and multiple recordings?

calling dibs = nay; multiple recordings = aye

> And what do you think would be appropriate in this particular instance?

I don't think it's a dick move to sit down and record anything. It can become a dick move if you go ahead and post something eventually (like, it can be a dick move to post w/o author permission), but you're free to use your creative energy when and where you like, and if you wanted to sit down and record that story in that moment, well, there's no wrong being committed there.

Now, you say you contacted the author and then you say 'someone else called dibs'. Are those the words used by the author? Did they simply make it known to you that they are aware of someone else recording the story? Because I think both are different, really. Maybe that someone who asked for author persmission first does not think of it was 'calling dbis' themselves, you know? That's entirely possible. Or maybe I'm just hypothesizing stupidly because you've been told fir sure that they DID call dibs.

In that case, anyway, I personally think that if you want to go ahead and post your recording it is okay. But obviously, if you want to be careful of that other podfic artist's feelings, then you might want to wait until they've posted theirs, or ask the author if you can contact them and discuss things with them. Personally, I might like you fear that even contacting them to talk it out might result in them dropping their project - and if I really feared that, I would simply sit on my recording and hold my tongue for a while, waiting for their recording to come out. And then I'd release mine a bit later.

But there is a real difference in my mind between 'things I do because I like to be polite / not an asshole' and 'things I consider ethical' - and I don't always base my actions on the first category only. :))

[podcath]

I would probably be a tad unhappy, because your recording's much better than mine and it takes me much much longer. In other words, the story you recorded and were able to release in an evening, might have already had a dozen hours of recording and editing in it on my end, and I'm not sure i'd be willing to put more time into it and then would feel I'd wasted that time.

But see, those are all *my* issues! There's nothing in there that you did wrong or that'd make you a bad fan or friend, y'know.

At the same time, knowing that i'm fairly slow, I wouldn't call dibs. I.e., I usually ask when I've started recording/am about to start and I tend to not have too many projects going simultaneously.

[pandarus]

See, that was my worry - not that my recording's better (your recordings are awesome!), but I know that I do tend to rattle them off pretty quickly ('cause I tend to edit as I go, and I'm probably a bit slapdash about it), and so what may have been a one-hour investment for me might have involved much more time and effort for another person. So, yeah - I was worried that once I did that whole contacting-the-other-person thing I would automatically be pissing on their bonfire.

(Happily in this case she hasn't started it & is a bit snowed under with RL things at the minute, and seemed genuinely unfazed by it, so it's all good.)

[podcath]

It's one of those things where we all know it shouldn't be an issue; we like multiple recording; we're all happy for more fic...but I was trying to be honest and...yeah, I'd be depressed...and then mad at myself for being depressed :)

thank you for your sweet words!!! But if I only had half your abilities (she says as she just finished Student Prince Part 2 and is wholly enthralled with this story and even more your reading and only can survive not getting more right now, bc I have your Sherlock recordings to listen to now :)