Fighting For Our Right To Party

[zvi]

So, I am not actually directing you to go talk to people in an anon meme, but there's a long discussion about posting a story podfic first, text delayed, in the Inception anon meme on LJ.

It raises a few interesting questions which you might care to discuss.

Some questions:

1) How do you convince people to give podfic a try, if they don't intuitively grasp why it might be cool?
2) If a story only ever gets posted as podfic, are you keeping something from people who prefer text?
3) What are the arguments for and against simultaneous release of podfic and text versus podfic first release?
4) How do you present the idea to people of a staggered release without annoying them? How do you let the people who didn't want to listen to the audio that the text is finally available?
5) If a story is released podfic first, is that first podfic of it the canonical version of the text?
6) How do you write a story to be read?

Comments

[melannen]

For accessibility reasons, I support everything having a text version. (Text can be read by screenreaders, audio can not be automatically converted to a non-audio version with any reliability. Hand-transcribing text is tedious as fuck, so it's not always possible, but if the transcript already exists, it should be made available!) I'm not hearing impaired, but my comprehension (both speed and quality) is so much better with text than audio that I generally don't bother with something that doesn't have a text version unless I already know it will work for me (be it podfic, TV shows... I've even started asking for transcripts of museum audio tours and things like that when I can. I do listen to audiobooks, podcasts and podfic but only under specific conditions so I choose carefully.)

And yes, I do get annoyed when I'm well aware that there's a more-accessible version out there that people are deliberately withholding because they think they know better than me how I should experience something. (*this is spillover annoyance over general lack of transcripts, not at podficcers specifically.) I can only imagine how much more annoyed are people with actual hearing impairments, or major cognitive processing difficulties, which means they can't handle audio at all (of which I know there are many in fandom because I know many in fandom. Some of them have put in huge amounts of effort making amateur transcripts of canon available so people like them can participate fully. So someone deliberately making it harder to access transcripts that already exist? Why yes. I judge.)

And what about the people who don't have broadband or are using public or shared computers they can't download media files onto? Not the right sort of audience for some folks, clearly.

...Um. I think that covers your questions 2, 3, and 4. I am still thinking about the others.

[pennyplainknits]

Well, as it's my project, I guess I should answer.

I haven't read the whole thread on the anonmeme, I don't need that kind of stress in my life.

I actually don't care if people don't like podfic. I think they're missing out, but hey, I don't like fic about tentacles, so.

This was something I had wanted to try for a long time, and five of my friends were kind enough to indulge me. The fic will in face be posted as text in a month, as was made clear at every point along the way. People can either wait, or not wait and forget about it. It's not like I track downloads, and I'm zen with podfic not getting a lot of comments so it's not likely that I'd notice either way if people did dl the recording or wait for the text version.

I did Spring Fling because I wanted to try something new, and because I'm irritated by the way podfic artists are seen sometimes as nothing more that human screen readers. I stand by by I did it. Interestingly no one has come to me with any of the concerns expressed in the meme. If they had, I could have told them my reasons, and pointed out that once to month is over authors are free to promote the hell out of their fics whereever they chose, so they wouldn't miss out.

Apologies if any of this sounds bullish or aggressive. I'm operating on a severe sleep deficit and I have many 20 minuts of internet time all day today and I don't have time to phrase and rephrase everything. If you click the spring fling tag in my journal you can find a post where I talk a bit more about my reasoning.

[facetofcathy]

My patience timed out trying to get the anonmeme link to load, so I'm just going to answer the questions without that background.

1) I know that podfic is cool. I know this having never listened to one, because all sorts of people love it, love making it, love listening to it, and they say so in their journals and in places like this. I don't want anyone trying to convince me to try it. I know how my brain receives verbal information, and I know that a fanfic is too complex an item and at the same time, a reading of a text is too, hmmm, all of a sameness in presentation for it to work for me. (Also Ubuntu doesn't want to play sound through my headphone jack.)

For people not like me, but who are hesitant to try podfic, my advice is to make some small samples that can be embedded in a journal post and are one click to listen to. Tantalizing samples of new works with lovely cliff-hangers.

2) If a story is never posted as text you are keeping something from people who can not, choose not to, may not or prefer not to access fic any other way. I'm not saying that's morally wrong, necessarily, I'm just saying yes you are, and it's not all about preference.

3) I can absolutely see the point of promoting podfic as an art form by having some podfic only fic releases, or podfic first fic releases. I can see the point of that as strengthening community for podfic creators too. I'm not someone who believes everything in fandom is for everybody--er, just don't advertise yourself as universal if you're never going to try to be. Simultaneous release is less controversial. Sometimes controversy is the price of the thing you want to achieve.

4) Oh, well, know up front that being annoyed is just how some people do fandom. But, explain in simple terms somewhere in the first nine paragraphs of your announcement post (there is some science that people drift off after 9 paragraphs in news articles) how easy it will be for us textophiles to access the text of the story and when that will happen. How? Make sure it will work for anons as well as people who would like an email or comment letting them know.

5) I have no opinion.

6) Oh, someone please answer this! I find this idea fascinating. I read aloud my stories at final edit stage, and that surely helps with a story meant to be read, but is there a style of writing that works, or some that don't? How does knowing you're writing to be read change the work?

[sholio]

wandering in via Metafandom...

Speaking as a person for whom podfic and audiobooks don't really work well (I've listened to a few, may listen to a few in the future, and I am wildly flattered that I have had a few of my own fics podficced, but A/V will never be my preferred format for this kind of thing) I have no problem at all with this! Yes, if this was done in my fandom, it is very likely that I would wait for the text version, because podbooks/audiobooks do not suit my particular needs as a fan. But as far as I'm concerned, it's the author who gets to choose how to present their story, and if the author feels that their work is better presented in audio format, why shouldn't they? I don't feel like anyone is "forcing" me to do anything, any more than I feel like someone is "forcing" me to read a fic in French by not making an English version available. If you don't make it available in text format at all, then yes, of course you are in some sense "keeping" it from people who find text more accessible, but I don't find that any more manipulative or bothersome than a fic being available in text-only format.

It makes me think in some ways of fandom's perennial argument over posting a completed fic as a WIP vs. posting it all in one go. Some people argue that the author is "withholding" the finished story by doling it out in chunks. I really don't see it that way. As a reader, I often prefer to read in small installments anyway (it works better with my schedule) but there are also times when I would rather read the whole thing in one go, or would like it all on one page for downloading purposes, and then all I have to do is exert a bit of patience and wait 'til the author gets to that point. And ultimately I think it is the author's choice anyway.

As far as doing outreach to people who are indifferent or hostile to the idea of podfic-first fanfic ... I'm not sure if you can, really, other than by presenting it with fun and squee, and trying not to tear down the other side. I mean, it just will not be for some people, and these people already know who they are. Me, for one. Having people proselytize at me about podfic doesn't help, because I already know why it doesn't work for me. But seeing people playing happily in the podfic playground, obviously having fun, was what got me to check out a little bit of it and may get me to check out more in the future. I'm not saying it's entirely a matter of "build it and they will come!" because obviously there is more to it than that, but it seems to me like it's more important to build such a thing for fans who are already interested, than to try to cater to the uninterested and indifferent.

[frogspace.livejournal.com]

2) Well, yes, you are keepking something from people who prefer text.

3) I would say the arguments are the same as the arguments for and against zines in the age of the internet. Once upon a time zines where the only way to access fanfic. With the rise of the internet, fanfic that was published in zines became something that was only accessible to a limited number of people while everyone else had to wait for the net release. Podfic-only or podfic-first publications recreate that dynamic. Even the linked anon thread reads like something from the zine debates.

[naraht]

Basically I think that offering an audio version of the story while intentionally keeping back the text version is a bit of an accessibility fail.

I can definitely see podfic as its own art form rather than as an echo of an already existing fic. But it seems to me that podfic has to make the argument for its primacy by clearly offering something that's not available in its text version, rather than through making that text artificially difficult to get hold of.

[torachan]

Man, I just do not get the "yes, you're keeping something from people" argument, and I don't even like podfic! I guess I feel like there's a billion and five fanfics, so so what if someone records something that's podfic only? It's not like that means there's less to read. I like the comparison above about other language fics. I don't feel like something is being withheld from me if someone writes a story in Russian or Spanish and doesn't post an English version of it...

[lavvyan]

4) How do you present the idea to people of a staggered release without annoying them?

I don't see why I would have to try not to annoy people. It's fandom; being annoyed by random nonsense is what people do. Some people will break their fingers on the back button if someone uses "dick" instead of "cock" in a fic. It's their prerogative to do their thing. It's my prerogative to do mine.

Besides, the general assumption seems to be that once something is posted on the internet, the original creator holds neither title to nor control over it. That may be so. But with podfic vs. text, the original creator (one half of them, at least, if narrator and author aren't the same) retains control over how something is posted, and in this particular case, when. I can see how that would go against the sort of fannish entitlement that sees authors as writing machines (I'm sure George R. R. Martin would find the discussion at the meme somewhat entertaining), but frankly, that's the readers' problem.

melannen's argument for accessibility makes sense (though I can't be the only one remembering that unfortunate post about podfic as an accessibility tool for those whose eyesight fails them, which did make a few good points among all the bad), but in terms of a staggered release, those who rely on text versions would only have to wait a slightly longer period of time. Seeing as how text versions make up the vast majority of fandom, I don't see how this would be a major issue. Putting both versions out there seems like the obvious way to go to include the largest-possible portion of fandom, but usually the text gets released way before the podfic, and I don't see anyone make a fuss there.

[busaikko]

2) But... this happens? Remember those audio stories and mockup episodes made by mixing together canon dialog so it sounded like Jim and Blair were having loud sex? I have never seen transcripts of those. Nor have I seen outrage at the lack of transcripts.

3) I have trouble understanding cinema/TV audio. I buy DVDs so I can read the subtitles. I watch TV shows, and then I look online for posted transcripts. So audio first, then text is not new to me. I also grew up listening to the BBC World Service, which had fantastic radio dramas and game shows with no text available. I am all for podfic-first as well as podfic-only releases, if that is the native form of the art.

4) I'm assuming this is fanfic; just post it to the regular comms. If people are really eager, they can track the post or the tag.

5) Yes.

[paraka]

So the basic argument against no release (or delayed release) of the text of a fic is that you’re denying (or delaying) people the ability to consume a story how they want/need, when you don't have to.

I'm curious what the reaction would have been if the circumstances were different and people were saying that authors saying no when people ask to podfic their fic were denying podfic fans access to their works in their desired medium, that authors were making their works inaccessible to those that have issues with text.