Should readers get permission to make podfic?

[jesse_the_k]

While I just argued that the act of podficcing adds "fannish value" to a work, I'm unsure that readers must obtain an OK from the writer to make a recording.

Since I'm a newbie, I did some research. While I don't think it's possible for a podfic to fundamentally change a source in the same way, I started with remixes, since there's the same "permission" issue there. It seems most remix challenges are based on a mutual remix: by participating in writing, each fan also permits their work to be remixed (with one "safe" work held inviolate).

The Fanlore Wiki told me:

 begin quote 
Though remixing in both fanfiction and vidding has become enormously popular, not all fans embrace the concept. [... snip ...] Though some fans feel any story is fair game for remixing, others believe that permission should be gained from the author first before using their work as a jumping-off point. Many fans feel it's hypocritical to reuse the original creations of the copyright holders in the canon while protesting that anyone should be allowed to remake their fanworks.
 quote ends 

Current metadata don't state whether the podfic's reader has the writer's permission. Would the absence, permission or refusal of writer's OK change how you'd choose or read podfics?

Comments

[inalasahl]

No, I don't really see a lot of fic where authors are saying ahead of time "don't." Nor do I think silence should be considered as tacit permission. I just think it's pretty easy to ask for permission, and I'm not sure under what circumstances one wouldn't want to (a surprise gift maybe?). I mean, I haven't heard of any case where someone had zir fic recorded and and got mad about it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. So, I think it's just easier to ask.

So, basically, I was thinking about a situation where one asked for permission, and was denied. You could go ahead and do it anyway, but why would you want to when there are so many people out there who would be fine with their fic being recorded?

[zvi]

It's pretty easy to ask permission ... for a copy of a fic that's been archived with still current contact info or under a pseud that leads to a website with current contact info when you search for it. I wouldn't want to hazard a guess on the percentage of stories at 852 Prospect or Heliopolis or Area 52 or an XF archive or a popslash archive or an old dS archive or, well, basically any fandom older than about two years, for which that would not apply.

And I would think that the reason you would want to record a fic, either from an untraceable or disapproving author, was because you wanted to record that fic, in the same way that I write June/Neal instead of (Elizabeth)/Peter/Neal in White Collar, because I'm interested in that scenario more than the one that would garner lots of comments fast. Or even more basically, why people choose to make fan works instead of imagining everything from 'scratch'?

Stories aren't fungible.

[inalasahl]

Well, I think there's a difference between being unable to find current contact information for an author and going ahead and recording a podfic, and choosing to record a fic over the author's objection.

You're right that stories aren't fungible, and I shouldn't have implied they were. As a writer, I find that there's never just one story I want to tell, though, even if I'm focused on a specific pairing or fandom. And from a listener's perspective, there's so much out there yet unrecorded. There's no one specific story I've been wishing someone would do.

[zvi]

Well, I think there's a difference between being unable to find current contact information for an author and going ahead and recording a podfic, and choosing to record a fic over the author's objection.

I don't think people have or will frequently make that distinction. So, if we have a politeness standard that says, "You should ask the author," and one is unable to ask, the politeness standard then implies, "Too bad, so sad, all of that fic for which an author cannot be found is now unavailable for additional transformation." And I think that's a great loss.

[(Anonymous)]

"I don't think people have or will frequently make that distinction."
*is puzzled*

This assumption proceeds from ...?

signed,
lr

[zvi]

My experience with standards of politeness in fandom is that they are often understood to allow the fewest possible number of speakers and promote behavioral conformity.

I've also had read some arguments (none of which I can find at the moment), which persuasively make the argument that the promulgation of some sorts of free licenses (specifically, CC) which explicitly permit activities which are legal regardless (specifically, transformative work making commentary on the original), puts a negative pressure on the actions when taken towards those works for which the action would still be legal, but no explicit license has been given.

[(Anonymous)]

Hmm.

Your second paragraph is looking, to me, like an issue separate and apart from the original question, but before even I try to address it, I want to make sure I understand, because this phrase

"puts a negative pressure on the actions when taken towards those works for which the action would still be legal"

is confusing me.

Are you suggesting
a) the absence of explicit refusal should indicate the presence of acquiescence?
b) the absence of explicit refusal does indicate the presence of acquiescence?


signed,
lr

[podcath]

That's not wholly true though, is it? Even beyond the objections that Zvi posted below (above?) about older stories, even current writers may just not respond. I asked for permission to record an SPN/J2 big Bang story from 2008, I think, so not horribly old last summer. As far as I remember I used all contact info I could find and have yet to hear a response.

I'm not sure how to handle these situations. I sometimes wonder if reasonable objection right might be the way to go. If you have any issues or don't want me to do this I will certainly respect them; otherwise I assume your tacit permission?

[inalasahl]

I didn't explicitly include never getting a response to a query in with being unable to find current contact information, but I was mentally including it.

Zvi may be right that a standard of "ask first" would lead to a perception that if someone couldn't find contact information, zie shouldn't record the fic. I still think that "asked and never got an answer" is a more defensible position (should the need for defense arrive) than "never asked."

[zvi]

Why do I need fox1013's permission to perform her Firefly fic, where I wouldn't ask Fox's, or Joss', or the cast members' permission to novelize The Train Job?