podficmeta | Go! Tell it on the mountain!

Thanks for the link.

I'm really genuinely interested to know what it is that people find so appealing about it. It's one of the few aspects of fandom that's never made sense to me on a gut level, so I really want to hear from the people it works for.

I know there are lots of 'em, so there's got to be something I'm not seeing.

But I think the great thing about fandom is that you don't have to see the point of everything. You don't like podfic and that's ok because there's probably a million other things that you *do* like:)

Personally, I've always loved being read to. By my mum when I was younger, by my sister when I'm sick, I adore it. I always pay more attention to detail when I'm listening to something rather than reading to myself. I find it relaxing and comforting.

Podfic allows me to completely immerse myself in a story, to notice the beautiful turns of phrase, the lush description the snappy back and forth of dialogue. And you'd be amazed at how well a 30 something fangirl from France can end up capturing Rodney Mckay's snappy voice, or a 20 something english fangirl can make me believe I'm listening to Arthur and Merlin.

aw, I resemble that remark! *grins and hugs*

I'm like you, I love when people tell me stories, always have loved it. Plus, when I read with my eyes, I don't tend to visualise anyway - I hear voices somewhat, yes, but mostly because I am super language oriented, I read the words themselves; I register their rhythms, the way they sound, the prosody of the sentence, the placement of commas, etc. I'm super sensitive to these details - hearing a story actually relieves my brain somewhat from some of the detail work of processing all that written language. It IS relaxing and comforting, for sure. It helps me listen to the story itself rather than the words, somehow - though I keep hearing those too, and I will stop listening to a podfic if/when it has the same 'faults' at the writing level that make me backbutton from the text. Anyway what I meant was, it doesn't shatter any mental construction I have of the world/characters I'm otherwise reading about; it doesn't break a fourth wall or disperse a visualisation, cos I wasn't having those anyway when I was reading.

Hmm. I'm sure I could say more about what I like, but my bed (and my lulling podfic!) is waiting. *g*

Oh, I really like that. And I wonder whether podfic listeners tend to be on the verbal rather than the visual spectrum. Because I don't see pictures or identify. I kinda watch the story as story play out and listening is another way...

Well, I'm not a movie-in-your-head type person, either, but I definitely prefer text over speech. I just can't process things aurally as well. A conversation is one thing (though even that is not ideal for me), because it's generally back and forth between me and someone else, but just listening to one person relay a huge block of information cannot hold my attention and I just cannot absorb it, so whether it's a lecture or a podfic or whatever, it's just not going to sink in.

(no subject)

softestbullet - 2010-03-02 19:25 (UTC) - Expand

You do indeed resemble that remkark:D

Anyway what I meant was, it doesn't shatter any mental construction I have of the world/characters I'm otherwise reading about; it doesn't break a fourth wall or disperse a visualisation, cos I wasn't having those anyway when I was reading.

Yes, exactly! I don't tend to visualise that much when I read, although for different reasons than you. So nothing is hardwired in my brain that's going to be shattered if I listen to a podfic, it's always *adding* something to the experience, not taking away.

I'm sure I could say more about what I like, but my bed (and my lulling podfic!) is waiting. *g*

Listening to podfic in bed is the *best*.

*hugs you tight*

If that's not me I'm going to pretend it is me anyway

Heee:) Of course it was you! I'm totally amused now that both people I referred to knew that it was them and commented on it:D

:)

I have a merlin podfic up next, if I can remember their voices!

Your question kinda caught me in a wrong place. It's like asking an mpreg fan (or substitute pretty much any kink here that has as many detractors as it has fans) why they like this really embarrassing and icky and offensive thing. And I guess at that point all we--the mpreg/podfic/name your poison fans --ust have to say is, because we do!

So, I'm not sure what you're looking for when you're asking this question. I can list you all the things that I love about mpreg, all the ways it plays with gender, all the things that bug and trouble me about it. And none of those will make you like it any more.

I love podfic because I love being able to listen to stories in the same way I love listening to audiobooks. It's not like reading. It is much slower--forces you to follow along, paces it for you. It interprets the story for you, and it doesn't work or all stories for me (just like there are mpregs that really bug me :). But when it works, your squick's my kink!!!

It's like asking an mpreg fan ... why they like this really embarrassing and icky and offensive thing.

Well, it *does* embarrass me.

At no point have I suggested podfic (or mpreg, for that matter) is icky or offensive.

Simply that it weirds me out, just as I'm sure there are things out there in the fannish world that weird you out. So here I am trying to figure out from the people who love podfic what they love about it instead of letting it rest unexplored. If my curiosity hits you in a wrong place, there's nothing I can do about that.

I really appreciate your (and everyone else's) answers here. That's a good point about podfic setting a story's pace for you. I like to think that when I read fic, I'm always slow and careful and attentive to detail, but that's not always true, and with podfic, the listener is definitely guided by the pacing of the reader.

Thanks for shedding light on this for me. :)

Protip from someone who writes a lot of meta

1) Don't use the construction "what's so great about X?" if you want people who like X to talk to you. That phrase implies that there is nothing great X.

2) If you want to find out why people like something, don't start out the conversation listing all of the reasons you don't like it. This makes it sound as if you've made up your mind about the something, and there's not much in it for people who like X to try to convince you otherwise.

I find that the best way to get people to explain the appeal of something I don't is to structure the discussion so the deficiency is placed on my lack of understanding, instead of the appeal of the thing I don't get. For example, "I don't really understand why people are into Supernatural. Can y'all tell me what you like about it?"

I find that the best way to get people to explain the appeal of something I don't is to structure the discussion so the deficiency is placed on my lack of understanding, instead of the appeal of the thing I don't get.
I agree. In some situations.

Not really in fannish ones.

I think topics can be opened for debate without worrying about every bit of language and its potential to offend someone reading it. For example, right here. Plenty of people have showed up to talk about the pros of podfic, and I'm not at all sure that would have happened in response to a post full of demure language and quiet solicitations for information.

I have run in fannish circles for quite some time, and watched many a meta discussion go down, and relatively few of the good and interesting and multifaceted ones that I've seen have begun with neutral wording.

I'm sure there are plenty of things out there that I like that other people are put off by, and I'd be much more likely to step in and defend my opinions if I saw evidence of someone else *really* not getting it. It gets the passion going, which is one of the best things about the fannish community, in my opinion.

So, being my blog and my opinions, I've expressed them. And it has indeed generated a fruitful discussion, and I've gotten a lot of interesting information from lots of fen that has helped me figure out what it is about podfic that works for people. Some things I'd have guessed to be true, and some things I'd never have thought of. Which is precisely what I was hoping for.

At no point have I stated that I think there's something inherently wrong with podfic or with people who like it and listen to it. I haven't stated that, because that's absolutely *not* what I think. But the whole point of the conversation for me is to find out what people do like, regardless of whether or not it convinces me to take up podfic listening on a regular basis, and that's what's happened here. No one's trolling, no one's attacking, no one's going after other fen personally. And me, I'm really interested to see all of these responses.

So thanks, again, for yours, and for getting the thread started in the first place.

(no subject)

zvi - 2010-03-02 22:19 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

fandomfan - 2010-03-02 22:31 (UTC) - Expand

I don't find podfic embarrassing the way you do, but I am weirded out by the voices. Mainly I don't listen because I far prefer text to audio. I have never liked reading aloud or being read aloud to (as soon as I could read on my own, I never wanted my mom to read to me anymore).

I'm really genuinely interested to know what it is that people find so appealing about it.
The biggest thing for me about podfic is it allows me to consume fanfic in places where I'm not generally able to. When I'm at work, cross-referencing, when I'm driving, when I'm standing in line at the grocery store. I love fandom, and I love podfic, so why not try to squeeze it into the boring parts of my day?

And I just went and read your post where you say you get that in theory, but I guess it comes down to everyone has different comfort levels.
You mention that it doesn't sound right to you, or that people interpret things differently than you do and it throws you out. The thing is, if you listen to podfic, you just get used to it. Just like reading fanfic for the first time can be a bit jarring because canon through fandom can have a very different emphasis than what you pick up on your own. Fandom changes how you interact with the source. Podfic does the same, only this time the source is a fanfic and possibly the canon instead of just the canon.

You say that there's no way the podficers can sound like the actors, which is true, however, it's also not really the point. When you hang out with friends and talk about your day, do you make sure to use the same voices as the people you interact with? Is everything you say a performance? No, you're just telling a story. A story about other people, and that's understood by how you tell it. It's the same with podfic.

I know the first time I listened to an American fandom podfic read by an Australian, I'll admit it threw me out of the story for a second but it's just something you get over (or don't and you give up on podfic because it's not for you).

The thing is, if you listen to podfic, you just get used to it. Just like reading fanfic for the first time can be a bit jarring

A hundred times yes to this comment. I can remember how weirded out I was the first time I read fanfic...and then the first time I read m/m fanfic...and then the first time I listened to podfic...and I'm sure there'll be something new coming along any time now that I'll have to get over my preconceptions in order to enjoy.

Some podfic hits my embarassment squick, too - I think it has to do with just exactly the way the reader is reading and how I feel about the content of the story, and how well the voices work with the story, so I never know for sure if a particular recording's going to hit it until I've started listening.

I do still listen some, though, but it's almost entirely a convenience thing - sometimes I want to read fic but my eyes and/or hands are too occupied to actually read text, and I do like having podfic for that purpose. I know some people find extra value in the art of the recording, but for me, anything that gets in the way of just hearing the words is unnecessary (and often distracting, and far more likely to hit the squick); whereas I've been known to use the (terrible!) built-in text-to-speech program in Windows to read me fic if there's no podfic of a story I'm working through and I have to go audio.

So - yeah, I am so much not the prime audience for podficcers, but I do like it 'cause it's *useful*.

I just actually read your post after leaving my comment, and I'd add after that that it seems like you'd probably be more likely to enjoy podfics for stories you haven't already read. Many of the issues you pointed out with podfics seemed to come from the difference between how you interpreted a story when you read it vs. how the reader interpreted the story. So if your first experience of the story was hearing it, that might clear up some of that discomfort for you.

Maybe you have already tried this, but if not, and if you are really trying to enjoy podfics for whatever reason, it might be worth a shot.

That's a really good point. All the podfic I've tried has been for stories I'm already familiar with.

I'll have to go hunt down some for new-to-me stories.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Oh, yeah, then I totally suggest it.

It's hard to rec podfics, because people seem to have quite different tastes, and in the end it's down to trying a few until you start to find voices that you really connect with.

That said, I can try to rec you some, if you want. I know a really good Skins one, which might work well for you because there's a good chance it's a fandom you're not already in (or even a canon you may not be familiar with. I wasn't when I heard the story, and it was confusing at first but I still really enjoyed it). Also, the text of the story no longer exists, so in this case it's not podfic vs. text, it's podfic vs. nothing.

Anyway, that story is here, if you're interested.

(no subject)

fandomfan - 2010-03-03 00:36 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

brimtoast - 2010-03-03 00:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

dodificus - 2010-03-03 09:07 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

fandomfan - 2010-03-03 09:19 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

brimtoast - 2010-03-03 15:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

fandomfan - 2010-03-03 18:01 (UTC) - Expand

I'm really genuinely interested to know what it is that people find so appealing about it.

Um... why?

I haven't listened to podfic. (Dialup internet. Not friendly to podcasts.) I have listened to audiobooks; I don't like them. Have listened to old-time radio shows; don't like those, either. Am pretty sure I wouldn't like the low end of amateur productions similar to either, and even the high-end is not going to go as smooth or as fast as I want words to enter my brain.

I get that lots of fans are squeeing like crazy over podfic, and the genre is full of new & exciting tech, and more stories, and more participants, and I'm kinda left out of that. Aw.

But I'm not confused that others like it and I don't. And I haven't bothered asking the f'list, "what do you like about podfic" any more than I've asked them "what do you like about SGA" (which I also don't) because I'm pretty sure that, whatever it is, it's *still* not going to appeal to me. And understanding it in the abstract (oh hey yeah, that would be a good character dynamic to play with/wow, hearing a voice for [character] would be cool), isn't going to drag me into the actual squee.

There is NO REASON to ask "why do you like X" unless it's either "I wanna share the squee" (which it doesn't sound like you're likely to do, any more than I am) or "... so I can tell you what's wrong with that because X is icky."

Which you say you weren't doing. And okay, I'm sure you didn't intend. But your post didn't read like "hmm, new fannish squeething everyone's doing; I don't get it; help me flist." It read like "there's this squicky thing people *all over* are doing; how can they *stand* it?" And of course, the answers are likely to be somewhat defensive; you insulted their squeeful hobby. Or you at least said, "I find it horribly ugly and uncomfortable and don't understand how anyone could like it."

there's got to be something I'm not seeing

There is. Different people like different stuff.

Some people like fluff. Some like non-con. Some like long, plotty novels; some like PWP drabbles. Some like comics. Some like fic archives with black backgrounds and gothish fonts and vampire artwork all over the place. Some like printed zines and don't read anything online. Some like meta. Some like detailed concrit. Some like writing to a deadline. Some like collaborations. And some like podfic.

Once you've figured out you *don't* like something, what does it matter why someone else does? It's not like we have squee rationing.

Hmm, but her replies so far have all been interested and respectful. I actually was worried this whole post would be with her arguing back against the things people say are good about podfic, but she hasn't done that once.

It kind of seems like she's trying to figure out if the problem is just that she hasn't heard the right ones, or that the reasons people like them are not things that are going to apply to her, and therefore she should stop trying to find ones she likes.

I obviously can't actually speak for her, but that's the impression I have. I mostly just wanted to come to her defense in terms of her tone throughout this actually discussion post, which hadn't struck me as hostile or dismissive.

Thanks for the support, there.

:)

Once you've figured out you *don't* like something, what does it matter why someone else does?

Well, because it's an inherently interesting question, or it can be. If I don't like something other people like, odds are decent that there's something about it that I'm not seeing, or not even equipped to see, that the right audience is seeing and responding to. So when someone can explain what they're seeing in a way I can wrap my head around, if only for that moment, it can be an amazing experience, and a tremendous gift. We never can see through each others' eyes, but when someone is able to communicate any part of the meaning of something you just don't get for yourself, there's at least a glimpse of how the world looks to others, and just how wide a world it is outside your own head.

I'd go around asking people why they love things I'm indifferent to all the time, if I didn't know how wearing it can be on everyone in virtual earshot. Hell, it's why I'm here reading this post and these comments: people might tell me interesting things, and hey, I didn't even have to be the one to raise the question!

There is NO REASON to ask "why do you like X" unless it's either "I wanna share the squee" (which it doesn't sound like you're likely to do, any more than I am) or "... so I can tell you what's wrong with that because X is icky."
Sure there is. If you're genuinely interested to see what it is that works for people about something that you don't understand.

This isn't a matter of me not appreciating one particular fandom or another, it's a whole genre of fanworks that has become pretty damn popular in the last couple years, and my whole point with my blog and the discussions it might spawn is to delve into fannish issues.

So, if I don't understand what it is about podfic that works for people (and I'm understanding an awful lot more of it through this discussion), then of course I'm going to ask "Why do you like X?"

Or you at least said, "I find it horribly ugly and uncomfortable and don't understand how anyone could like it."
I didn't at all say that 'I find it horribly ugly'. I said it makes me uncomfortable and weirds me out, and yes, I said that in a way designed to get debate going, but I most certainly did not say that I think people who listen to podfic are awful or that podfic itself is squicky (I used the phrase embarrassment squick, yes, but that means something subtly different). And in response, I've learned a lot about what makes podfic into some fen's squeeful hobby of choice.

Once you've figured out you *don't* like something, what does it matter why someone else does?
Because I'm a curious human being who's interested in fen and online fannish communities and what makes them tick. And a discussion isn't a discussion without opinions other than my own, whether those come from, in this case, from people who love and adore podfic or people who don't or people like yourself who seem to have zero involvement with podfic whatsoever.

So thanks for chiming in, though I'm a little confused as to what prompted you to do so, since it doesn't sound like you've got a whole lot of opinion on podfic either way.

Still, thanks.