podficmeta | Concrit?

Concrit?

Constructive criticism, how do people feel about it?

As a recorder, do you want to hear from someone about how you read to fast/left that blooper in at 12:42/had birds screeching in the background*/whatever? Is it helpful or hurtful? Has concrit ever prompted you to make changes to a specific recording or made you change something about the way you record/read in the future?

As a listener, *do* you leave concrit when you feedback? Do you want to but feel stifled or unsure of the reception? Do you think it's rude/pointless/dull to do so?

*I'm pretty sure there are screeching birds in the background of just about everything I've recorded, even though I don't actually own a bird

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Yes, I do want to hear those kinds of things! I don't know that I get them often, though. Lately I've been having my stuff beta-listened, just so I can get the kind of feedback that lets me improve.

And I do tend to say them, although I always agonize over it a little bit first, and I always make sure to balance it with positive feedback, and to qualify it so that it's clear that this is just my opinion, and others may have other preferences. And there are some things that just aren't constructive to say, even if they might be true, for example "I can't understand your accent at all". But I do try to say things that I would want to hear, such as "The volume of your recording is very low" and "Your reading is a bit too fast for me, and sometimes I miss words".

And there are some things that just aren't constructive to say, even if they might be true, for example "I can't understand your accent at all".

Yeah, not really helpful, is it? Personally, I've never had a problem understanding or enjoying someone's accent, it's always been more about the pitch/sound of someone's voice that can put me off listening. And again, there's not much anyone can do about what their voice essentially sounds like, so I'd never actually leave a comment about that.

although I always agonize over it a little bit first, and I always make sure to balance it with positive feedback, and to qualify it so that it's clear that this is just my opinion,

That's pretty much where I'm at as well. I mean, feedback is so hard to get for podficcers in the first place, I just hate to think that maybe the only comment someone is going to get is me telling them that they read too fast for me or something like that.

This whole post was prompted by me going back and checking the post of the very first podfic I put out into the world back in 2007. I'd put out an explicit request for constructive criticism because I had fuck all idea about what I was doing and needed pointers. And people gave it to me, it was great! But I tend not to see much unprompted concrit in podfic.

I think the general rule of thumb when giving concrit/advice/heads up/whatever, is that it's really only useful if it's something that can be fixed.

In the case of podficcing, pointing things out like the podficcer's accent or the sound of their voice just sends the message that the podficcer should stop podficcing, which is a sucky message to send. :(

As a podfic artist I *totally* want to hear the real constructive crit listeners have. I'm not going to pretend it doesn't bother me - I feel mortified for a moment when I get a note like that in my inbox - but in the long run I am glad to get clues as to how I could improve, what my weak spots are, what I can maybe fix. I might never fix some stuff, but I'm glad to *know* so that if I have the time I can go back and re-edit, perhaps, or simply so that I can record better next time, etc.

As a commenter I tend not to give concrit anymore, and that applies across the board from fanfic to fanart and podfic. I might still do it if it is explicitly requested, ot if I'm really good friends with the person, but I shy away from it in general. My life in fandom has made me disinclined to expose myself to reprobation in that particular way. :(

It's sadly a bit inconsistent with my recording position of wanting to be told what's wrong, since I dont actually always advertise that fact - but hey, no one said I had to be consistent, huh?

It's funny because you're one of the few people who have explicitly asked me for concrit on their stuff after it's been posted and I can never find anything to say except how awesome it is:P

As a commenter I tend not to give concrit anymore, and that applies across the board from fanfic to fanart and podfic.

Apart from a word misspelled or a missing word or something obvious like that, I rarely feel 'qualified' to leave concrit on fic, I don't know how to articulate what I want to see most of the time. The podfic world is the place where I feel comfortable kind of opening that discussion both as a giver and receiver of concrit.

As a recorder, do you want to hear from someone about how you read to fast/left that blooper in at 12:42/had birds screeching in the background*/whatever? Is it helpful or hurtful?
I'm someone who is actively trying to improve/change up my podfic all the time so I really welcome concrit. I'm not going to lie, it might make me hide under my blanket to nurse my hurt if the concrit was hard to hear but I think I'd still want to hear it and would appreciate it in the end.

Has concrit ever prompted you to make changes to a specific recording or made you change something about the way you record/read in the future?
In the past I've changed up how I podfic based on concrit but I can't really think of any situation where I've gone back and edited an existing podfic. I'm kinda lazy about re-records (I have a bitch of a time editing them in to sound natural) so chances are if I had to re-record to fix the problem, I'm more likely to skip it and just take the feedback for future projects. If it was just that I left a stumble in or something I'd totally fix it though.

I thought some really good things were said during the Critical Feedback Exchange I ran last year. Since people had signed up for it, there wasn't that shock involved that you sometimes get with out-of-the-blue concrit. The only thing was, since there isn't much of a concrit culture in podfic, and we're so open and embracing of people's various styles I think a lot of people struggled with giving the concrit (all the podfics were supposed to get 2 pieces of concrit, but in the end I only made sure everyone had one, since so many people just weren't able to do it – that was also why I decided not to run it again this year).

As a listener, *do* you leave concrit when you feedback?
God, I'm the worse person in the world for leaving feedback, in that I just don't do it very often. When I do, I generally focus on the positive and encourage what I felt was done well. I have betaed podfic though, and have given the whole range then.

Do you want to but feel stifled or unsure of the reception?
Mostly I feel stifled by my own laziness :P

If people are unsure of their concrit's reception, I don't think there's anything wrong with asking the podficcer(s) in question if they're ok with receiving it first. And of course it always helps if you can talk about what you thought was good before bringing it up; logically, people generally leave concrit because they see potential in the work they're concriting and want to nurture that potential to help it grow into something awesome but it can be hard to remember that when someone presents you with things they thought you could do better on.

I have betaed podfic though, and have given the whole range then.

It's different then, isn't it? The piece hasn't been released into the wild yet and any changes can be made easily and with little discomfort, it's a different mind set for the person receiving the beta notes and the person giving them. Less fraught.

Look, I'll admit, I'm a lazy person too. I take concrit under advisement for future work that I do but I don't know that I've ever gone back and edited and reposted a podfic after hearing something from someone. But I can't remember getting any feedback where I've thought the person leaving it was being malicious or a bitch or had anything but the best intentions at heart.

It's different then, isn't it?
*nods* I wasn't trying to say they were the same, more comparing the two for contrast. When you beta with someone, you generally have specific expectations and often a previous relationship of such things to fall back on. When you're giving someone concrit, you don't (normally) have those things to fall back on. Which is why I'm more likely to focus on the positive and encourage with concrit and with betaing I'm more willing to just lay it out on the table. :)

But I can't remember getting any feedback where I've thought the person leaving it was being malicious or a bitch or had anything but the best intentions at heart.
*nods again*
Most of the times I've gotten concrit (both for podfic and vidding) have been wonderful and I've walked away happier and more knowledgeable for it. Most of the tip toeing around concrit for me is giving it and wondering how the person in question will receive it since not everyone handles it well.

A few years ago I used to be involved in

the_reel, which is a vidding concrit comm (now dead?). The only way your vid would be reviewed is if you specifically asked for it to be but I still had one vidder lose it with me when I gave concrit on her vid (and I actually really liked the vid too). You can just never be sure if someone will take concrit well, even if they ask for it.

Oh man, I am pretty sure I am stepping into unpopular opinion territory here, but the list of things I want concrit on is quite small. Here's what I *do* want:
-If I mispronounced a word, I absolutely want to be told (ideally privately), and if I still have the file, I will probably re-record to fix it. If not, I will at least make a prominent note warning people and apologizing, so they know what they're in for before they decide to download.
-If there's a repeated line, I want to know ASAP and I will definitely edit the file to take it out.
-If my volume is too low to work on someone's mp3 player or something, I'd like to know that as well, because it's not info that I can get on my own and because it's easy for me to fix.

Anything that's an artistic choice, though, I'm not really interested in concrit on. People have such different preferences that I just sort of assume that my readings will be too fast for some people, too slow for some, and just right for some. They will be too performed for some, not performed enough for some, and just right for some. I can't make everybody happy on that stuff, so I just aim for a product that makes me happy as a listener and that makes my betas happy. I never release anything that hasn't been listened through and commented on by at least one beta-listener, and if there's something I want a second opinion on (or third, or fourth), I'll go to betas with that question and resolve it to my satisfaction before I release the file.

If a person who wasn't my beta contacted me with unsolicited concrit about a finished piece of mine, I would listen to what they had to say and try to learn from it. But ultimately, if they don't like my work at all, I'd rather they find a reader they do like than try to get mine to change completely. And if they do like my work but see ways that they think I could improve and really want to want to work with me towards that, I'd prefer they offer to be my beta for a future piece than give me concrit on a completed piece.

Oh man, I am pretty sure I am stepping into unpopular opinion territory here,

I don't think that's the case at all, I think that I'm personally so hesitant to give concrit because I *do* know that a lot of people don't particularly want it.

But ultimately, if they don't like my work at all, I'd rather they find a reader they do like than try to get mine to change completely.

I'm not trying to change your mind with this at all, just letting you know where I'm coming from when I *do* leave concrit: if I don't like a piece of work, for whatever reason, then I don't leave any feedback at *all*. If I do like it then I'm coming from a place where I just want to talk about it with the creator, maybe *I* didn't like the speed with which they read but (like you've pointed out) it will be perfect for someone else.

I'd prefer they offer to be my beta for a future piece than give me concrit on a completed piece.

Eeep! I don't think I would *ever* point blank offer to beta for someone I didn't really know, I feel like that would be more insulting than any concrit I could give them.

I'm not trying to change your mind with this at all, just letting you know where I'm coming from when I *do* leave concrit: if I don't like a piece of work, for whatever reason, then I don't leave any feedback at *all*. If I do like it then I'm coming from a place where I just want to talk about it with the creator, maybe *I* didn't like the speed with which they read but (like you've pointed out) it will be perfect for someone else.

Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I though most concrit came from a place of total dislike. I was just trying to address that option so that my follow-up sentence about concrit from someone who sincerely liked a lot of stuff about my work didn't feel too presumptuous.

Eeep! I don't think I would *ever* point blank offer to beta for someone I didn't really know, I feel like that would be more insulting than any concrit I could give them.

*nod* It's perfectly possible that that would go over badly with a lot of people. I just know that I personally would prefer an offer to work with me on a future project than concrit on a completed project. I might be alone in this!

I've only asked one person for concrit, and that was for my first itty-bitty podfic, and I found it helpful and welcomed their opinion. That was you, Dodie, although I don't know if you remember anything about it.

Only one other person left feedback that could be considered concrit, and they suggested I might like to speed up my reading a bit. I have speeded up a little, after coming to the conclusion that my normal speaking voice probably has more of a drawl to it and is naturally slower, so deliberately slowing down all the time was probably counter productive. I still fiddle with it, and as Podklb said above, how I read is probably fine for some part of the population.

I didn't want to participate in the critical feedback exchange. Maybe if I was aiming on becoming a professional reader than I would do it, but I don't, this is a hobby for me. That said, I don't think I'd fall apart if a listener did give me concrit that ripped me up. Still, I'm not going out of my way to ask for it.

I don't use a beta because I don't want to slow down the process of making the podfic. I kind of beta myself, I practice record and listen to the recording and think about how it's coming across, practice saying lines different ways. After recording I play it on my Ipod and listen for the other mistakes and fix them. I usually listen at least twice. Once I've uploaded to the archive, though, I don't want to go back and change something. It's too much work for me and the helpers at the archive.

I've gotten enough positive feedback to know that there are listeners who like my podfics, or at least some of them. Mostly I'm recording in a fandom that doesn't have a lot of podfic readers, or the level of interest in podfics that SPN or SGA has. I think that probably Dodie is the other person besides me who has recorded the most in the Sentinel fandom. (By the way, listened to the recent ones Dodie did and it's on my to do list to leave some comments. Also planning on reccing them on the Tspodfic comm.) Anyway, I think my point is that I might not get a lot of concrit because not a lot of people listen to Sentinel podfics, period.

Giving concrit. (I'm not going to complain about household noises, or others, because they're probably out of the podficcers ability to control. I do think it's funny when I'm listening to a podfic while I'm walking down my gravel road and think a car is coming, and it turns out it's on the podfic. Also those birds sounds always make me think of an apartment I had where the frickin' birds started singing at five am every day without fail. I usually hadn't gotten to bed till two am. It makes me remember my junior year of college, so I don't mind hearing them in podfics, either.

I think I would give concrit only if the person put on their post that they were looking for it. I have mentioned when giving recs to answer a request for podfics, that the story was enjoyable, but did have a few repeated lines. I wasn't telling the podficcer, though, at least not directly. And they figured it out because later podfics had those kind of things edited out.

Laurie

I've only asked one person for concrit, and that was for my first itty-bitty podfic, and I found it helpful and welcomed their opinion. That was you, Dodie, although I don't know if you remember anything about it.

My memory is absolute shit so it's pretty crazy that I *do* remember this and you've been pretty prolific since then:D

I do think it's funny when I'm listening to a podfic while I'm walking down my gravel road and think a car is coming, and it turns out it's on the podfic.

This has happened to me so many times with so many different background noises that I thought were happening for real, I always have to laugh. And a lot of the time I find it adorable when I hear a cat/door/bell in the background because for just a second I get knocked out of the story and remember that there was a RL fangirl, just like me, sitting in her house recording a story she loved.

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