podficmeta | from me, zvi

Entry tags:

from me, zvi

So, something came up in the discussion about changes that I'd like to talk about.

Is podfic for the writer, or is it an independent work of the reader?

We've got a couple of models about fanwork in fandom. There's fanfiction or fanart based on the source, which is clearly not for TPTB. And we've got art made for a particular fanfiction, which is generally presented as for the author of the fanfiction. And we've got exchange challenges, where the story written is a gift for the recipient. But we've also got prompt challenges and remix, where you're working based on story or prompt of a particular person, but it's really specifically not a gift.

Where does podfic fall in that spectrum? And, because of where it falls in the spectrum, should the authors whose work is being read treat it as a gift, or as an independent fanwork that they criticize to the extent/in the same manner as they would anything else?

We only have one more discussion question left from the 3w4w blitz, so if there's some podfic meta you'd like to bring up, please leave a discussion prompt

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It had never occurred to me to consider it for the writer. I mean, it is nice for the writer to know someone liked their fic enough to want to record it, but the motivation of the reader is not to do something for the author (unless the author has specifically asked for it). I mean, I've never even listened to the handful of recordings of my fics because I don't listen to podfic. So how could it be for me? It makes me happy because people liking my fic makes me happy, but clearly there is other motivation involved for the reader.

should the authors whose work is being read treat it as a gift, or as an independent fanwork that they criticize to the extent/in the same manner as they would anything else?

Neither of these feels quite right to me. Treating it as a gift implies the assumption that the reader was doing it primarily *for* the author, and while, as a reader I really value the author's opinion and end up feeling very close to them and fond of them after spending so much time with their story, I have never decided to record something just because I thought it would make the author happy. I decide to record because I love the story and think I could do something good with it and want to spend time with it. And I share it when I'm done because, I suppose, I like the positive attention and it makes me feel good to think of people I have never met listening to and enjoying my work. The author's opinion does matter to me more than any other listener's, but if I knew in advance that the author was never going to listen or give much thought to a podfic, that wouldn't stop me from doing the story.

I think the relationship between author and reader is like... to me, the author ends up feeling like how I felt about my professors when I was in college. I wasn't going to school and writing my papers *for* them, it wasn't a gift to them, but I did put a lot of stock in their opinion. That doesn't mean they had to think I was perfect, and if they had useful things to teach me that was awesome and I took it to heart. But I had one professor where I did not make it through a single paper conference without tears, because he would always just rip into my paper and tell me everything wrong with it, in a way that didn't actually help me see how to fix it for next time, and taking every word he said to heart made me feel like a complete failure. But I don't think he realized the power that his position gave his words, so he was just confused about why I was taking some normal everyday criticism so seriously.

Anyway, I don't know if that analogy to professors is useful to anybody who doesn't live in my brain and have the associations I have. But I think the point is that the author should be aware that they are not in the same position in the reader's mind as any other listener. But it's not because the podfic was made as a gift to them, either. It's just because they are special among listeners in the reader's mind and their opinion carries a lot more weight than other listener opinions.

(Disclaimer for the whole last paragraph: I only actually know this to be true about me and the other one podficcer friend I have talked to about this. It might be different for other readers.)

This isn't exactly the right word, but ideally, I tend to think of podfic as a sort-of collaboration between reader and author. Not in an "author is involved every step of the way" sense, but that the author should have some input in the final product, if she wants it.

Maybe I'll get lazier about this once I get more experience under my belt and/or find out that most authors just don't care, but so far, when I send something to a beta-listener, I also send a link to the author to give her an opportunity to say "Hey, that line was supposed to be sarcastic. The angry way you read it completely misses the point of that scene."

This will teach me to just fire off a comment and wander away. :)

As a writer, I do feel ownership over the textual reproduction of my work. If someone is reproducing my story in text form, I want every single word transcribed as I posted it. Dammit.

However, once the media of my story changes, I feel that if I'm going to give permission at all, I should cede control to the person creating the new work. Even if it's a recording, which is more or less a spoken version of my written-down words, I know that the chosen format will alter the way the story arrives in the receiver's brain. Even if the reader repeats each one of those singular words exactly as I wrote them down, they will give them different emphasis, different tone, different pace, different everything than I imagine. It's inevitable. Changing the form will change the how the story needs to the told, and I'm all right with the new creator taking their own creative license to make those changes.

In other words, by choosing to allow someone else to verbalize my story, I'm giving them permission to re-interpret it anyway. I suppose, in whatever passes for logic in my world, that's the big deal, and shifting around the words and even eliminating some of them doesn't seem to bother me. I can't say I'd be thrilled if someone pulled all the sex out of a story, but so long as they link back to the original and note that it's been edited (which is a specification I've made for transforming my work), then I'm satisfied that someone who sees the new work will also have the chance to see where it came from.

Also, there is the fact that I am lazy and shiftless and would rather a reader or other transformer feel free to make merry with my stuff without my actually having to be on hand to check e-mail and grant permission and stuff. :)

As for the question of where podfic lies in the gift/work spectrum, my impulse is--probably not surprisingly--to put it more in the "fanwork of the reader" end of the spectrum. As I said above, if a listener has the opportunity to look at my original text, I don't think I would worry too much even if someone--in my opinion, of course--really screwed up an interpretation of a story. I feel fairly strongly that once I've released a story into the wild, how readers respond to it is out of my hands. That includes how a podficcer chooses to interpret it. That said, I don't feel obliged to agree with an interpretation, and I feel that I have every right to review independently created podfics of my own work and point out places where I disagree as much as where I agree.

Obviously, the above is my own personal stance. I completely understand how nervous many authors are about having their stories read by others. The thought of someone tampering with a work that they've spent a great deal of time and effort over, sweating over word choices and turns of phrase only to have them changed by a reader--that's a big deal, and I don't blame anyone for saying "please don't change anything without asking." I think that's a perfectly reasonable stance. I can't pretend that I'd be exactly joyful to discover a podfic that radically altered a story of mine in ways I found objectionable. But I can't control that without also controlling everything, so I've chosen to take the risk. Believe me, though, that I fully understand and support the decision of others to not take the same risk. I just wanted to make that clear.

I have occasionally recorded a podfic as a gift for the author (usually a birthday present), but I don't normally think of it that way. I suppose for me, it's more similar to a remix--it takes the original story and transforms it. Less than a remix does, I suppose, but it does involve independent creative work on the part of the reader.

I think of it more like a rec rather than feedback. Feedback would be for the author whereas a rec can be neat for the author, but it's more for other readers. In fact, most stories i've recorded I did so because I loved them and wanted others to hear them/read them as well...

This. I record stories that I really love, so I would consider it a sign that I would recommend the story rather than anything else.

In fact, most stories i've recorded I did so because I loved them and wanted others to hear them/read them as well...

Yes, totally! Reccing is definitely an aspect of podficcing. I feel all satisfied when someone listens to a podfic of mine and appreciates the story.

I think of it more like a rec rather than feedback.

Yes! A hundred times, yes. Stories I choose to podfic are, for the most part, stories I want everyone to read/listen to because they're just so awesome.

I think this is something that depends almost entirely on context. Podfic certainly *can* be given as a gift or done as a favour. It can be a commodity as well, "bought" by someone who agrees to donate money to charity, for example. On the other side of the spectrum, it can be done privately for fun. Even if it's posted on the internet, the original author need not necessarily ever hear about it.

So what determines whether or not a podfic is made for the original author? Primarily I'd say that it's determined by the intent of the podfic creator: whether they're a friend of the fic author, whether they ask for permission, how they present the finished product, etc. And maybe it's also determined by the reaction of the original author. It definitely made sense to me that people would view podfic of their work as a recommendation of it.

Podfic is a fanwork of sorts, but it's not a wholly independent one, so I would feel a bit churlish critiquing a recording of one of my fics even if it hadn't been presented to me as a gift. If someone is saying "I love your work" by making a recording, saying "well, but I hate yours" seems... well, wrong somehow.

I don't make podfic for the writer, but for myself and for fandom, because I loved the story or was impressed by it and want to share my enthusiasm. I know there are writers who get very excited and are grateful when someone offers to podfic a story, but the podfic isn't so much for them as it is in response to their work. That said, it's nice to feel as though I've made an author happy by selecting their work to podfic.

I don't expect the author or anyone else to have only good things to say about my recordings. I know I still have things to learn, and I welcome constructive criticism. Some stories don't translate to podfic as well as others, and I think discussing what does and doesn't work in a podfic will make for better recordings in the future.

But not everyone welcomes criticism. Some people need a place in their lives where they are cheered on unequivocally. That's why I really liked participating in the Podfic Critical Feedback Exchange earlier this year, and plan to submit a podfic if it happens again. Everyone chose to submit their work for analysis, so there weren't (as far as I know)any hard feelings about what was written.

Podfic made for auctions like Sweet Charity are more gift-like because the motivating force is someone else's desire to hear a story, rather than my own. However, it's also part of a transaction: I will read x thousand words of fic in exchange for a donation of y dollars to this charity, which somewhat negates the gift aspect of things.

I think of podfic of a translation of sorts; the podfic has two creators, the writer and the reader and both contribute to the final product. The podficcer doesn't have the freedom to randomly change scenes because she didn't like them before (cutting for an abridged version is different, imo, but would still need author approval), while the writer can't influence how exactly the podficcer interprets the written words.

The final product will always be the result of two people working on something. So I don't think it's a gift or an independent work. It's a translation.

Recently I've been approached by two different people asking for permission to podfic stories of mine. I was flattered they found them interesting, and it would never have crossed my mind to say no -- nor did I expect to be asked for permission. My feeling is once the story's out there, it can be recorded, critiqued, archived or whatever. If I don't like their version, I'm free to do my own. I would not, however, like to discover a work of mine had been abridged for a podfic unless it was just a finite chapter being recorded. I think a podfic exists as a collaboration between writer and reader.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

from me, zvi

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject